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	<title>Comments on: World of Warcraft did NOT kill the MMO market</title>
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	<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2009/11/10/world-of-warcraft-did-not-kill-the-mmo-market/</link>
	<description>A blog about EverQuest, EverQuest II and MMORPGs in general</description>
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		<title>By: Tipa</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2009/11/10/world-of-warcraft-did-not-kill-the-mmo-market/comment-page-1/#comment-16988</link>
		<dc:creator>Tipa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=4419#comment-16988</guid>
		<description>@Callan I was thinking later on that instead of saying WoW was not part of the MMORPG genre, it would have been more accurate to say that it had made it&#039;s OWN genre, and these days you have MMOs which are trying to be part of the MMORPG genre, and others that are trying to get into the WoW genre.

@Anorii That&#039;s right, it isn&#039;t donating 50% of the proceeds from the Pet Store to the Make-a-Wish Foundation. Just 50% of the proceeds from sale of the Pandaren pet. And that pet is now &quot;sold out&quot;, so they&#039;ve finished donating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Callan I was thinking later on that instead of saying WoW was not part of the MMORPG genre, it would have been more accurate to say that it had made it&#8217;s OWN genre, and these days you have MMOs which are trying to be part of the MMORPG genre, and others that are trying to get into the WoW genre.</p>
<p>@Anorii That&#8217;s right, it isn&#8217;t donating 50% of the proceeds from the Pet Store to the Make-a-Wish Foundation. Just 50% of the proceeds from sale of the Pandaren pet. And that pet is now &#8220;sold out&#8221;, so they&#8217;ve finished donating.</p>
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		<title>By: tupodawg</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2009/11/10/world-of-warcraft-did-not-kill-the-mmo-market/comment-page-1/#comment-16986</link>
		<dc:creator>tupodawg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=4419#comment-16986</guid>
		<description>&quot;New AAA high production value MMOs should budget for a user base of 150K and hope for 300K.&quot;

Spot on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;New AAA high production value MMOs should budget for a user base of 150K and hope for 300K.&#8221;</p>
<p>Spot on.</p>
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		<title>By: Anorii</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2009/11/10/world-of-warcraft-did-not-kill-the-mmo-market/comment-page-1/#comment-16984</link>
		<dc:creator>Anorii</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 01:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=4419#comment-16984</guid>
		<description>Because Blizzard totally isnt donating 50% of the proceeds from the Pet Store to the Make-a-Wish foundation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because Blizzard totally isnt donating 50% of the proceeds from the Pet Store to the Make-a-Wish foundation.</p>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2009/11/10/world-of-warcraft-did-not-kill-the-mmo-market/comment-page-1/#comment-16982</link>
		<dc:creator>Tesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=4419#comment-16982</guid>
		<description>&quot;WAR sized and designed for 300K players would have been a whole different situation I believe.&quot;

Agreed.  Devs need to focus on what they are bringing to the table, not what WoW already *has* on the table.  As much as I dislike Darkfall personally, I think they are a good model of appropriate planning, since they wholly embrace what they offer and unapologetically cater to their audience.  EVE, Wizard 101 and Puzzle Pirates do the same thing; they do *their thing* and leave the WoW gorilla alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;WAR sized and designed for 300K players would have been a whole different situation I believe.&#8221;</p>
<p>Agreed.  Devs need to focus on what they are bringing to the table, not what WoW already *has* on the table.  As much as I dislike Darkfall personally, I think they are a good model of appropriate planning, since they wholly embrace what they offer and unapologetically cater to their audience.  EVE, Wizard 101 and Puzzle Pirates do the same thing; they do *their thing* and leave the WoW gorilla alone.</p>
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		<title>By: syncaine</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2009/11/10/world-of-warcraft-did-not-kill-the-mmo-market/comment-page-1/#comment-16980</link>
		<dc:creator>syncaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=4419#comment-16980</guid>
		<description>I would not be surprised if SW:TOR is the last MMO to chase WoW numbers. How many overpriced lessons do VCs need before they realize the size of the real MMO market and start planning accordingly. There is still a TON of money to be made in the genre, but copy/paste WoW design is not the way to go about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would not be surprised if SW:TOR is the last MMO to chase WoW numbers. How many overpriced lessons do VCs need before they realize the size of the real MMO market and start planning accordingly. There is still a TON of money to be made in the genre, but copy/paste WoW design is not the way to go about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Pike</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2009/11/10/world-of-warcraft-did-not-kill-the-mmo-market/comment-page-1/#comment-16978</link>
		<dc:creator>Pike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=4419#comment-16978</guid>
		<description>Gotta agree; one of my co-workers plays pretty much every MMO that comes out.  He was late to the WoW bandwagon but when he did try it he only played for a couple months, then it was off to Age of Conan or whatever was new at the time.  He&#039;s played pretty much everything and it&#039;s always fun to hear his experiences while everyone else at work is still playing WoW...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gotta agree; one of my co-workers plays pretty much every MMO that comes out.  He was late to the WoW bandwagon but when he did try it he only played for a couple months, then it was off to Age of Conan or whatever was new at the time.  He&#8217;s played pretty much everything and it&#8217;s always fun to hear his experiences while everyone else at work is still playing WoW&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Saylah</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2009/11/10/world-of-warcraft-did-not-kill-the-mmo-market/comment-page-1/#comment-16974</link>
		<dc:creator>Saylah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=4419#comment-16974</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Tipa and the question from &#039;Shut up we&#039;re talking&#039; about what game you would un-make, my personal answer was WOW.  WOW is a great game and there&#039;s no question in my mind about that point.  However, we&#039;re continuing to live in the fallout of that success - some good, others very negative.  I&#039;ve come to the point where I would have rather seen more small games (small populations) games succeed than the monster that is WOW.  Granted, it&#039;s certainly not Blizzard&#039;s problem that they made a insanely popular MMO whose population dwarfs everything else in comparison. It&#039;s the very false expectation and size of the market that has been skewed. 

As others have said before, they&#039;re isn&#039;t an 11 million player market out there for other games to capture.  It does NOT exist.  That&#039;s WOW&#039;s market based on the timing, execution and unique combination of content they put in vanilla WOW, when it was first released.  It&#039;s not going to be repeated any time soon.  I&#039;m disillusioned by games that insist on trying to match that mark, failing and leaving another blight on the genre in general.  WAR sized and designed for 300K players would have been a whole different situation I believe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Tipa and the question from &#8216;Shut up we&#8217;re talking&#8217; about what game you would un-make, my personal answer was WOW.  WOW is a great game and there&#8217;s no question in my mind about that point.  However, we&#8217;re continuing to live in the fallout of that success &#8211; some good, others very negative.  I&#8217;ve come to the point where I would have rather seen more small games (small populations) games succeed than the monster that is WOW.  Granted, it&#8217;s certainly not Blizzard&#8217;s problem that they made a insanely popular MMO whose population dwarfs everything else in comparison. It&#8217;s the very false expectation and size of the market that has been skewed. </p>
<p>As others have said before, they&#8217;re isn&#8217;t an 11 million player market out there for other games to capture.  It does NOT exist.  That&#8217;s WOW&#8217;s market based on the timing, execution and unique combination of content they put in vanilla WOW, when it was first released.  It&#8217;s not going to be repeated any time soon.  I&#8217;m disillusioned by games that insist on trying to match that mark, failing and leaving another blight on the genre in general.  WAR sized and designed for 300K players would have been a whole different situation I believe.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2009/11/10/world-of-warcraft-did-not-kill-the-mmo-market/comment-page-1/#comment-16971</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=4419#comment-16971</guid>
		<description>Polishing an existing experience is what Blizzard does best.  Anyone who remembers when Warcraft: Orcs and Humans came out will probably remember thinking &quot;Huh.  Nice fantasy Dune 2 clone&quot;.  Diablo didn&#039;t invent the whole rogue like/&quot;get loots in a randomly generated dungeon&quot; genre.  However, these games took the existing structure and ran with it.

The single largest difference between the big time MMOs and WoW, when wow appeared on the scene, was that a casual player could jump in and actually play it.  You could solo in WoW.  Bottom line.  People who played EQ or FFXI, or ever EQ2 in the early days will tell you that you HAD to group to do anything.  This meant time spent forming and maintaining a group.  WoW allowed more casual people, or people with time constraints the ability to jump in and jump out while making meaningful progress.  A casual player  might be enamored with EQ at first, but quickly they would see that a large chunk of your time was spent seeking a party and traveling to your destination at which point you would sit in the same spot all night, killing mobs pulled in from a short distance away by the puller.

I can&#039;t honestly say that I don&#039;t sometimes MISS those camping parties, but Blizzard saw that that style of grind and treadmill gameplay was costing games TONS of casual players who wanted a more exciting style of play while retaining the social aspects of the MMO game.  Now, after the fact, game companies are looking at that and either making their own game as casual friendsly, or in the case of EQ2, completely changing their existing game to get in on that casual action.

Blizzard made/makes a killing precisely because they take a familiar design that people like, and make small improvements that will have a large impact on the player.  For someone to come in and just COPY WoW shows that they are not only unwilling to try and innovate, but that they also fail to learn exactly what Blizzard did to be so successful in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Polishing an existing experience is what Blizzard does best.  Anyone who remembers when Warcraft: Orcs and Humans came out will probably remember thinking &#8220;Huh.  Nice fantasy Dune 2 clone&#8221;.  Diablo didn&#8217;t invent the whole rogue like/&#8221;get loots in a randomly generated dungeon&#8221; genre.  However, these games took the existing structure and ran with it.</p>
<p>The single largest difference between the big time MMOs and WoW, when wow appeared on the scene, was that a casual player could jump in and actually play it.  You could solo in WoW.  Bottom line.  People who played EQ or FFXI, or ever EQ2 in the early days will tell you that you HAD to group to do anything.  This meant time spent forming and maintaining a group.  WoW allowed more casual people, or people with time constraints the ability to jump in and jump out while making meaningful progress.  A casual player  might be enamored with EQ at first, but quickly they would see that a large chunk of your time was spent seeking a party and traveling to your destination at which point you would sit in the same spot all night, killing mobs pulled in from a short distance away by the puller.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t honestly say that I don&#8217;t sometimes MISS those camping parties, but Blizzard saw that that style of grind and treadmill gameplay was costing games TONS of casual players who wanted a more exciting style of play while retaining the social aspects of the MMO game.  Now, after the fact, game companies are looking at that and either making their own game as casual friendsly, or in the case of EQ2, completely changing their existing game to get in on that casual action.</p>
<p>Blizzard made/makes a killing precisely because they take a familiar design that people like, and make small improvements that will have a large impact on the player.  For someone to come in and just COPY WoW shows that they are not only unwilling to try and innovate, but that they also fail to learn exactly what Blizzard did to be so successful in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: ha1ku</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2009/11/10/world-of-warcraft-did-not-kill-the-mmo-market/comment-page-1/#comment-16967</link>
		<dc:creator>ha1ku</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=4419#comment-16967</guid>
		<description>Great article.  This message is clear: If you are investing now into MMORPG because of World of Warcraft, you are already late to the game.  You&#039;ll end up being a part of the video game &quot;bubble&quot; that has already started busting.  It probably goes without saying that late investors probably don&#039;t play video games, if the expectation is to &quot;copy&quot; Blizzard&#039;s success and get rich.

Investors probably really want to be at the leading edge of innovation, just as Blizzard was when WoW took off.  The challenge, then, is what&#039;s the next big thing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article.  This message is clear: If you are investing now into MMORPG because of World of Warcraft, you are already late to the game.  You&#8217;ll end up being a part of the video game &#8220;bubble&#8221; that has already started busting.  It probably goes without saying that late investors probably don&#8217;t play video games, if the expectation is to &#8220;copy&#8221; Blizzard&#8217;s success and get rich.</p>
<p>Investors probably really want to be at the leading edge of innovation, just as Blizzard was when WoW took off.  The challenge, then, is what&#8217;s the next big thing?</p>
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		<title>By: Callan S.</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2009/11/10/world-of-warcraft-did-not-kill-the-mmo-market/comment-page-1/#comment-16965</link>
		<dc:creator>Callan S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=4419#comment-16965</guid>
		<description>Hmmm, it&#039;s almost like the dot.com explosion, where everyone thought they were going to get rich online.

Perhaps it is the wording, as you say, that makes people draw comparisons. If wow is &#039;massively multiplayer&#039; and lotro is &#039;massively multiplayer&#039;, then the one with the most players is the most successful, the one with fewer players, a failure.

You don&#039;t get soft drinks that are called massively multidrinkers! No, they usually actually get evaluated for their taste. That&#039;s actually another thing - what&#039;s so great about &#039;massively multiplayer&#039; anyway? How many people does anyone actually interact with or even just see in wow, even after years of play? Probably only a few hundred. As long as any new game has you interacting with and seeing as many other players as you do in WOW, it&#039;s providing what wow does anyway. The whole massively multiplayer thing is just a big woop that&#039;s irrelevant to user experience of the game, really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, it&#8217;s almost like the dot.com explosion, where everyone thought they were going to get rich online.</p>
<p>Perhaps it is the wording, as you say, that makes people draw comparisons. If wow is &#8216;massively multiplayer&#8217; and lotro is &#8216;massively multiplayer&#8217;, then the one with the most players is the most successful, the one with fewer players, a failure.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t get soft drinks that are called massively multidrinkers! No, they usually actually get evaluated for their taste. That&#8217;s actually another thing &#8211; what&#8217;s so great about &#8216;massively multiplayer&#8217; anyway? How many people does anyone actually interact with or even just see in wow, even after years of play? Probably only a few hundred. As long as any new game has you interacting with and seeing as many other players as you do in WOW, it&#8217;s providing what wow does anyway. The whole massively multiplayer thing is just a big woop that&#8217;s irrelevant to user experience of the game, really.</p>
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