AC-Darktide had item looting in a game with more value placed on items, and people LOVED that server, so much as to debate which game (UO or AC-DT) was the better PvP environment. Lineage also allows looting. EVE goes one step further and not only do you lose a ton of stuff, you might also (if you are dumb) get set back a few weeks/months of training time, and that game continues to grow (including a very large guild of sheep called EVE University, designed to help new players out).

Remember that UO was not only a new open-PvP MMO, it basically created the MMO space. It’s PvE system was also massively flawed at launch (the whole living world thing, which sounded awesome on paper and was brutal in practice)

But bringing up UO is tough to apply now in 2009, with the MMO market the size it is now, not to mention how many people are sick of WoW trying to do PvP. Not many people really considers EQ an example of PvP, even though they had servers for it. Out of all the MMO players around now, I think DF might find the 100k bears it’s looking for. Or maybe some of the dogs will actually enjoy a challenging environment, rather than being given everything wrapped in a shiny box. Crazier things have happened :)

Yea I don’t like the perfect MMO talk either. Just be honest and admit you are aiming for a small niche, and that you hope to deliver something that niche will enjoy. But who knows, maybe they are just doing it to drum up news/hate. Free advertising from all the people constantly writing about DF being vapor.

Until DF is out, we won’t know how hard it is to actually avoid it. It does sound more open than EVE, but you never know, maybe gear in DF is even less important than in EVE, and parts of the world will be remote enough to offer relative safety. I’m sure even players who love to PvP won’t be doing it 24/7, so even they will enjoy the PvE aspects at times. That’s generally what happens in EVE now.

I’m also hoping the whole gear/level thing is somewhat balanced by actual player skill. From the descriptions of the magic and archer system, it would appear that is at least somewhat true. Plus is a full looting environment, gear really can’t be that important or hard to acquire.