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	<title>Comments on: Weekend Gaming and a rant about Star Trek Online</title>
	<atom:link href="http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/07/28/weekend-gaming-and-a-rant-about-star-trek-online/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/07/28/weekend-gaming-and-a-rant-about-star-trek-online/</link>
	<description>A blog about EverQuest, EverQuest II and MMORPGs in general</description>
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		<title>By: TheRemedy</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/07/28/weekend-gaming-and-a-rant-about-star-trek-online/comment-page-2/#comment-8787</link>
		<dc:creator>TheRemedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 01:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=1751#comment-8787</guid>
		<description>http://www.gametrailers.com/player/38183.html

Looks like they went with the combat route.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/player/38183.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.gametrailers.com/player/38183.html</a></p>
<p>Looks like they went with the combat route.</p>
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		<title>By: July in Review &#171; The Ancient Gaming Noob</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/07/28/weekend-gaming-and-a-rant-about-star-trek-online/comment-page-2/#comment-8509</link>
		<dc:creator>July in Review &#171; The Ancient Gaming Noob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=1751#comment-8509</guid>
		<description>[...] take note: If I cannot aspire to be Captain Kirk, I am not sure I want to play! Or just go read Tipa&#8217;s post on the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] take note: If I cannot aspire to be Captain Kirk, I am not sure I want to play! Or just go read Tipa&#8217;s post on the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/07/28/weekend-gaming-and-a-rant-about-star-trek-online/comment-page-2/#comment-8460</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=1751#comment-8460</guid>
		<description>Tipa, I agree, but I&#039;m jaded enough to not actually believe Cryptic (or anyone else) would break the mold of what the suits say is &quot;successful&quot; and run with it. Hence, our &quot;WoW In Space&quot; conversation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tipa, I agree, but I&#8217;m jaded enough to not actually believe Cryptic (or anyone else) would break the mold of what the suits say is &#8220;successful&#8221; and run with it. Hence, our &#8220;WoW In Space&#8221; conversation.</p>
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		<title>By: Sente</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/07/28/weekend-gaming-and-a-rant-about-star-trek-online/comment-page-2/#comment-8456</link>
		<dc:creator>Sente</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=1751#comment-8456</guid>
		<description>Reading at the STO web site, they seem to indicate that combat will be there but that it is just as much about exploration. What that means in practice remains to be seen. Last time  checked there were 26 pages in the forum thread where they were asking people about questions.

While there were a lot of very detailed questions, there were also a number of them asking more or less what you are highlighting here.

I think we will not see a game with non-combat focus until someone takes the essence of the combat gameplay and applies that to some other activity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading at the STO web site, they seem to indicate that combat will be there but that it is just as much about exploration. What that means in practice remains to be seen. Last time  checked there were 26 pages in the forum thread where they were asking people about questions.</p>
<p>While there were a lot of very detailed questions, there were also a number of them asking more or less what you are highlighting here.</p>
<p>I think we will not see a game with non-combat focus until someone takes the essence of the combat gameplay and applies that to some other activity.</p>
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		<title>By: Tipa</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/07/28/weekend-gaming-and-a-rant-about-star-trek-online/comment-page-2/#comment-8455</link>
		<dc:creator>Tipa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=1751#comment-8455</guid>
		<description>See, everyone looks at this IP and thinks WoW in Space.

Forget all that. Forget it to death. WoW and Star Trek have NOTHING to do with each other.

The IP itself is screaming the correct way to proceed.

You don&#039;t have quests. You have EPISODES. Each episode has a wide variety of ways to approach it -- via diplomacy, guns-a-blazing, sneakiness, a combination -- everything you remember from the shows. How you do an episode -- and they will be a combination of more difficult set pieces and randomly generated adventures -- affects how the Federation and Starfleet see you and affect the missions you can command in the future -- though you can be in someone else&#039;s episode. When you are commanding an episode, you can fill out your crew with any combination of NPCs and PCs.

Not going to get into too much detail, I did in a previous post. People are so mired in WoW-think that every new game is seen through that murk. But Star Trek is ALL ABOUT the densely plotted episodes, the difficult decisions, the discussions on how to proceed.

If Cryptic is coming out with a WoW-like, the IP should be taken from them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, everyone looks at this IP and thinks WoW in Space.</p>
<p>Forget all that. Forget it to death. WoW and Star Trek have NOTHING to do with each other.</p>
<p>The IP itself is screaming the correct way to proceed.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t have quests. You have EPISODES. Each episode has a wide variety of ways to approach it &#8212; via diplomacy, guns-a-blazing, sneakiness, a combination &#8212; everything you remember from the shows. How you do an episode &#8212; and they will be a combination of more difficult set pieces and randomly generated adventures &#8212; affects how the Federation and Starfleet see you and affect the missions you can command in the future &#8212; though you can be in someone else&#8217;s episode. When you are commanding an episode, you can fill out your crew with any combination of NPCs and PCs.</p>
<p>Not going to get into too much detail, I did in a previous post. People are so mired in WoW-think that every new game is seen through that murk. But Star Trek is ALL ABOUT the densely plotted episodes, the difficult decisions, the discussions on how to proceed.</p>
<p>If Cryptic is coming out with a WoW-like, the IP should be taken from them.</p>
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		<title>By: Relmstein</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/07/28/weekend-gaming-and-a-rant-about-star-trek-online/comment-page-2/#comment-8454</link>
		<dc:creator>Relmstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=1751#comment-8454</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think the DIKU model will run any risk of making people bored of MMOs. I mean didn&#039;t it dominate the early MUD era also?  In my mind the DIKU model is the the action movie of the MMO world and just like in real life the &quot;professional critics&quot; are always going to profess that whatever&#039;s popular is in poor taste. 

I guess since Star Trek is a mixture of action, techno-bable, and diplomancy that it would need a lot of different game mechanics to represent the franchise. DIKU type gameplay and combat would fit for the action part, but it would only be a small portion of what makes up Star Trek.  I think a complex crafting system like a combination of EVE Online and EQ2 might produce something on par with the techno-bable found in Star Trek.  Diplomancy would be a lot harder since you would have to be careful not to make it a requirement that some players would find boring. I like the guild system from EVE Online but it doesn&#039;t quite fit with Star Trek. Perhaps something that uses all the major empires in Star Trek as actual factions and requires players to negotiate to gain access to planets/missions not in their territory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think the DIKU model will run any risk of making people bored of MMOs. I mean didn&#8217;t it dominate the early MUD era also?  In my mind the DIKU model is the the action movie of the MMO world and just like in real life the &#8220;professional critics&#8221; are always going to profess that whatever&#8217;s popular is in poor taste. </p>
<p>I guess since Star Trek is a mixture of action, techno-bable, and diplomancy that it would need a lot of different game mechanics to represent the franchise. DIKU type gameplay and combat would fit for the action part, but it would only be a small portion of what makes up Star Trek.  I think a complex crafting system like a combination of EVE Online and EQ2 might produce something on par with the techno-bable found in Star Trek.  Diplomancy would be a lot harder since you would have to be careful not to make it a requirement that some players would find boring. I like the guild system from EVE Online but it doesn&#8217;t quite fit with Star Trek. Perhaps something that uses all the major empires in Star Trek as actual factions and requires players to negotiate to gain access to planets/missions not in their territory.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/07/28/weekend-gaming-and-a-rant-about-star-trek-online/comment-page-2/#comment-8453</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=1751#comment-8453</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s entirely possible we&#039;re already reaching that stage, Cam. I can rattle off a few on my blogroll who&#039;ve already put out which non-MMO&#039;s (including consoles) they&#039;re going to go out and get. I&#039;m spending more time with my 360. Diku is Diku. You can re-skin it all you want, but after a while you get an x-ray vision that lets you see beneath the skin to what you&#039;re truly playing over and over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s entirely possible we&#8217;re already reaching that stage, Cam. I can rattle off a few on my blogroll who&#8217;ve already put out which non-MMO&#8217;s (including consoles) they&#8217;re going to go out and get. I&#8217;m spending more time with my 360. Diku is Diku. You can re-skin it all you want, but after a while you get an x-ray vision that lets you see beneath the skin to what you&#8217;re truly playing over and over.</p>
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		<title>By: Cameron Sorden</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/07/28/weekend-gaming-and-a-rant-about-star-trek-online/comment-page-2/#comment-8440</link>
		<dc:creator>Cameron Sorden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 01:21:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=1751#comment-8440</guid>
		<description>I love diku. I&#039;ll be playing diku for years.

That said, it would be nice to see a few mainstream games pop out that shake up the mainstream conception of MMO a little bit more.

Maybe the industry isn&#039;t ready to move on, but sooner or later it needs to or everyone is just going to get bored and leave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love diku. I&#8217;ll be playing diku for years.</p>
<p>That said, it would be nice to see a few mainstream games pop out that shake up the mainstream conception of MMO a little bit more.</p>
<p>Maybe the industry isn&#8217;t ready to move on, but sooner or later it needs to or everyone is just going to get bored and leave.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/07/28/weekend-gaming-and-a-rant-about-star-trek-online/comment-page-1/#comment-8439</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=1751#comment-8439</guid>
		<description>@rao: That&#039;s actually not a bad idea in the sense that you&#039;re giving the players a choice: bid on the actual loot dropped, or bid on tokens to collect to get your loot later. Personally, once I have my tokens I&#039;d rather find an external NPC (LOTRO is doing this) and turn them in there, rather than deciding at a later time which loot you want and having to re-run the whole raid (Guild Wars does this with their campaign finale missions) which can be a drag.

As for STO, bottom line: I just don&#039;t see that the industry or its players is ready enough to move on from the Diku-based format. STO will, literally, be WoW in space. It&#039;s going to have leveling, crafting (in a world with replicators there is no need for this but it will be there anyway), gear upgrades, and Kill Ten Tribbles quests. For all the lengths our AAA MMO&#039;s go to disguise the grind and add new activities, video games in general haven&#039;t evolved beyond the point of players being mass murderers. (By the time we&#039;re level 2 or 3 in WoW we&#039;ve killed more than most real-life serial killers.) Violence is the solution to nearly every problem in a video game. 

Don&#039;t believe me? How many times have we heard A Tale in the Desert mentioned as anything more than a novelty? How many ATID blogs have we heard of?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@rao: That&#8217;s actually not a bad idea in the sense that you&#8217;re giving the players a choice: bid on the actual loot dropped, or bid on tokens to collect to get your loot later. Personally, once I have my tokens I&#8217;d rather find an external NPC (LOTRO is doing this) and turn them in there, rather than deciding at a later time which loot you want and having to re-run the whole raid (Guild Wars does this with their campaign finale missions) which can be a drag.</p>
<p>As for STO, bottom line: I just don&#8217;t see that the industry or its players is ready enough to move on from the Diku-based format. STO will, literally, be WoW in space. It&#8217;s going to have leveling, crafting (in a world with replicators there is no need for this but it will be there anyway), gear upgrades, and Kill Ten Tribbles quests. For all the lengths our AAA MMO&#8217;s go to disguise the grind and add new activities, video games in general haven&#8217;t evolved beyond the point of players being mass murderers. (By the time we&#8217;re level 2 or 3 in WoW we&#8217;ve killed more than most real-life serial killers.) Violence is the solution to nearly every problem in a video game. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t believe me? How many times have we heard A Tale in the Desert mentioned as anything more than a novelty? How many ATID blogs have we heard of?</p>
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		<title>By: Einhorn</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/07/28/weekend-gaming-and-a-rant-about-star-trek-online/comment-page-1/#comment-8438</link>
		<dc:creator>Einhorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/?p=1751#comment-8438</guid>
		<description>Hey Tipa...want me to destroy any hope you have of a Star Trek MMO not being a grind-fest with ONE WORD that will give Cryptic an unfailing excuse to include rampant grind-style slaughter?

One word: Borg.


HEE HEE HEE HEE HEEE!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Tipa&#8230;want me to destroy any hope you have of a Star Trek MMO not being a grind-fest with ONE WORD that will give Cryptic an unfailing excuse to include rampant grind-style slaughter?</p>
<p>One word: Borg.</p>
<p>HEE HEE HEE HEE HEEE!</p>
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