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	<title>Comments on: Stargate Worlds. Huh?</title>
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	<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/</link>
	<description>A blog about EverQuest, EverQuest II and MMORPGs in general</description>
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		<title>By: Kendricke</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/comment-page-2/#comment-4969</link>
		<dc:creator>Kendricke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/#comment-4969</guid>
		<description>I agree with Relmstein here - Stargate Worlds is likely being designed and targeted (at least initially) for fans of the show.      They even put together a prime time trailer for the game which aired during Stargate: Atlantis on January 4th.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Relmstein here &#8211; Stargate Worlds is likely being designed and targeted (at least initially) for fans of the show.      They even put together a prime time trailer for the game which aired during Stargate: Atlantis on January 4th.</p>
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		<title>By: Tipa</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/comment-page-2/#comment-4965</link>
		<dc:creator>Tipa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:44:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/#comment-4965</guid>
		<description>WoW&#039;s IP was based on games, and the players had a history of online play with b.net. Stargate hasn&#039;t got that advantage... Lord of the Rings Online was based on a non-game IP, and it made it, and of course choice and competition is the best way to ensure a larger MMO market. But they have real challenges ahead to get the word out to non-fans in a way that doesn&#039;t alienate them -- and that was really the point of my initial post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WoW&#8217;s IP was based on games, and the players had a history of online play with b.net. Stargate hasn&#8217;t got that advantage&#8230; Lord of the Rings Online was based on a non-game IP, and it made it, and of course choice and competition is the best way to ensure a larger MMO market. But they have real challenges ahead to get the word out to non-fans in a way that doesn&#8217;t alienate them &#8212; and that was really the point of my initial post.</p>
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		<title>By: Relmstein</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/comment-page-2/#comment-4961</link>
		<dc:creator>Relmstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/#comment-4961</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a huge Stargate SG-1 fan but I would have to admit this MMO is probably being designed primarily for fans of the series.  Then again you can&#039;t forget that World of Warcraft was originally based off an IP also and was mostly counting on fans of the RTS games to be their target audience. As more information became available though it became apparent that Blizzard was doing something exciting things and word traveled. WoW didn&#039;t gather 8 million players right away. 

The Stargate MMO has a unique chance to take advantage of being the only new DIKU based sci-fi game to hit the market in quite awhile.  We&#039;ve had Anarchy Online and Star Wars Galaxies come out but those were before World of Warcraft really reshaped MMO design philosophy.  Tabula Rasa and Eve-Online are sci-fi based but run on unique game mechanics that don&#039;t seem to have mass appeal.  Stargate will probably set the standard for future sci-fi based avatar combat games.  I expect Bioware&#039;s KOTOR project and Blizzards Starcraft MMO to be similar. I don&#039;t see any of these games releasing until 2009-2010 at the latest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a huge Stargate SG-1 fan but I would have to admit this MMO is probably being designed primarily for fans of the series.  Then again you can&#8217;t forget that World of Warcraft was originally based off an IP also and was mostly counting on fans of the RTS games to be their target audience. As more information became available though it became apparent that Blizzard was doing something exciting things and word traveled. WoW didn&#8217;t gather 8 million players right away. </p>
<p>The Stargate MMO has a unique chance to take advantage of being the only new DIKU based sci-fi game to hit the market in quite awhile.  We&#8217;ve had Anarchy Online and Star Wars Galaxies come out but those were before World of Warcraft really reshaped MMO design philosophy.  Tabula Rasa and Eve-Online are sci-fi based but run on unique game mechanics that don&#8217;t seem to have mass appeal.  Stargate will probably set the standard for future sci-fi based avatar combat games.  I expect Bioware&#8217;s KOTOR project and Blizzards Starcraft MMO to be similar. I don&#8217;t see any of these games releasing until 2009-2010 at the latest.</p>
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		<title>By: Tipa</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/comment-page-2/#comment-4956</link>
		<dc:creator>Tipa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/#comment-4956</guid>
		<description>How would you convince a WoW player to come try out a Stargate MMO, assuming they weren&#039;t already a fan of the show? That question probably can&#039;t really be answered for a game in development, but it&#039;s a necessary question. Better PvP? Faster (or no) leveling? User-created worlds? Squad-level combat? A chance to influence the world?

I imagine, though, that most of the people currently interested in a Stargate MMO already play an MMO of some sort. Will adventuring in the world of their favorite show be enough for them to give up WoW (or whatever game they play)? Any IP-based game has to struggle with that. It can&#039;t just be good, it has to provide a better experience than the one they already have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How would you convince a WoW player to come try out a Stargate MMO, assuming they weren&#8217;t already a fan of the show? That question probably can&#8217;t really be answered for a game in development, but it&#8217;s a necessary question. Better PvP? Faster (or no) leveling? User-created worlds? Squad-level combat? A chance to influence the world?</p>
<p>I imagine, though, that most of the people currently interested in a Stargate MMO already play an MMO of some sort. Will adventuring in the world of their favorite show be enough for them to give up WoW (or whatever game they play)? Any IP-based game has to struggle with that. It can&#8217;t just be good, it has to provide a better experience than the one they already have.</p>
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		<title>By: Openedge1</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/comment-page-2/#comment-4954</link>
		<dc:creator>Openedge1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/#comment-4954</guid>
		<description>Own all 10 seasons on DVD, own the movie, have watched all 4 seasons of Atlantis..
The fact the last season of SG1 was about King Arthur, Merlin and the Holy Grail...yet, there have been episodes about aliens, this is a true Sci-Fi-Fantasy setting which lends itself I believe to a better setting than Tabula Rasa&#039;s or Star Trek even for an MMO..

Take into account characters grew as the show progressed...they gained items, abilities (Samantha Carter had a brief stint of telepathy...)...if this is done right, the possibilities for adventure could be endless...

But, after the fiasco that was LOTRO (Lord of the Bore Online) or Matrix Online ...a great concept...(even to the point of killing off a main character from the movies) but poorly executed...all I can do is watch patiently, and just dream of what my MMO world of SG would be like until I see their idea&#039;s
Later</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Own all 10 seasons on DVD, own the movie, have watched all 4 seasons of Atlantis..<br />
The fact the last season of SG1 was about King Arthur, Merlin and the Holy Grail&#8230;yet, there have been episodes about aliens, this is a true Sci-Fi-Fantasy setting which lends itself I believe to a better setting than Tabula Rasa&#8217;s or Star Trek even for an MMO..</p>
<p>Take into account characters grew as the show progressed&#8230;they gained items, abilities (Samantha Carter had a brief stint of telepathy&#8230;)&#8230;if this is done right, the possibilities for adventure could be endless&#8230;</p>
<p>But, after the fiasco that was LOTRO (Lord of the Bore Online) or Matrix Online &#8230;a great concept&#8230;(even to the point of killing off a main character from the movies) but poorly executed&#8230;all I can do is watch patiently, and just dream of what my MMO world of SG would be like until I see their idea&#8217;s<br />
Later</p>
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		<title>By: yunk</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-4917</link>
		<dc:creator>yunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/#comment-4917</guid>
		<description>Actually reading your blog has got me into reading SF again. And now that i&#039;m reading better books I find I can&#039;t stand watching shows like SG: Atlantis or Battlestar Galactica (though I watch both, even &quot;talkingheads galactica&quot; which I call it now :) )    Books have more opportunities to delve deeper into issues than TV shows do, and I get frustrated with SciFi on tv which is so formulaic. So thanks for inspiring me to use my brain again, which was atrophying :)

Though one thing about SG was when they started on Showtime, Showtime bought the 1st two seasons, so the writers had plenty of time to make long arching storylines where they kept you in the dark and revealed the mythos little by little. You could never do that on network tv or even cable if the network only bought the 1st season, especially with these 13 episode seasons on cable nowdays.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually reading your blog has got me into reading SF again. And now that i&#8217;m reading better books I find I can&#8217;t stand watching shows like SG: Atlantis or Battlestar Galactica (though I watch both, even &#8220;talkingheads galactica&#8221; which I call it now :) )    Books have more opportunities to delve deeper into issues than TV shows do, and I get frustrated with SciFi on tv which is so formulaic. So thanks for inspiring me to use my brain again, which was atrophying :)</p>
<p>Though one thing about SG was when they started on Showtime, Showtime bought the 1st two seasons, so the writers had plenty of time to make long arching storylines where they kept you in the dark and revealed the mythos little by little. You could never do that on network tv or even cable if the network only bought the 1st season, especially with these 13 episode seasons on cable nowdays.</p>
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		<title>By: Tipa</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-4916</link>
		<dc:creator>Tipa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/#comment-4916</guid>
		<description>@Yunk: Well, if the WoW press release had said, &quot;Aid Thrull on his attack on Mount Hyjal, kill Illidan and explore the Emerald Dream&quot; -- and you didn&#039;t know anything of Warcraft ahead of time -- would you guess the game was assuming knowledge of the IP ahead of time? Blizz didn&#039;t go that direction. They emphasized the game play, art direction, zones and monsters. They hardly talked about the IP at all. Cheyenne seems to be taking a different approach, and that&#039;s what sparked the original post, because I didn&#039;t know wtf they were talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Yunk: Well, if the WoW press release had said, &#8220;Aid Thrull on his attack on Mount Hyjal, kill Illidan and explore the Emerald Dream&#8221; &#8212; and you didn&#8217;t know anything of Warcraft ahead of time &#8212; would you guess the game was assuming knowledge of the IP ahead of time? Blizz didn&#8217;t go that direction. They emphasized the game play, art direction, zones and monsters. They hardly talked about the IP at all. Cheyenne seems to be taking a different approach, and that&#8217;s what sparked the original post, because I didn&#8217;t know wtf they were talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: Tipa</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-4915</link>
		<dc:creator>Tipa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/#comment-4915</guid>
		<description>Based on all this passion for Stargate, I&#039;d definitely give the game a try. I&#039;m not really into military SF which may be why I never twigged onto the TV show. Though actually, I didn&#039;t like Buffy, Angel, Andromeda, that alien one that Gene Roddenberry did, Alien Nation, later episodes of Farscape (only seen a few anyway); never saw Lex or Cleopatra 2025 (or whatever it was called) or Aeon Flux, or Journeyman, or Quantum Leap... so it could be argued that I am either not a SF fan (which I am) or just don&#039;t have any taste (likely).

But see what I&#039;m doing here. I&#039;m basing my interest in possible IPs on what I know about their IP. I&#039;d silently decided long ago that Stargate Worlds was for Stargate fans, and since I wasn&#039;t one, it would have no interest for me. I tried TR, which reminded me I don&#039;t really get into SF with guns and commandos. Not a huge David Drake fan. Harry Turtledove cries in despair. David Webber doesn&#039;t like me.

Then Cheyenne Mountain puts out a press release filled with absolutely incomprehensible gibberish to a non-fan. That pushes non-fans away -- they read that and think, ah, this game isn&#039;t meant for me. I only have the movie to go on -- and some promos SF channel shows during BSG, which show groups of commandos doing stuff.

What are they doing to bring the non-fan (but hopefully future fan) into the game?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on all this passion for Stargate, I&#8217;d definitely give the game a try. I&#8217;m not really into military SF which may be why I never twigged onto the TV show. Though actually, I didn&#8217;t like Buffy, Angel, Andromeda, that alien one that Gene Roddenberry did, Alien Nation, later episodes of Farscape (only seen a few anyway); never saw Lex or Cleopatra 2025 (or whatever it was called) or Aeon Flux, or Journeyman, or Quantum Leap&#8230; so it could be argued that I am either not a SF fan (which I am) or just don&#8217;t have any taste (likely).</p>
<p>But see what I&#8217;m doing here. I&#8217;m basing my interest in possible IPs on what I know about their IP. I&#8217;d silently decided long ago that Stargate Worlds was for Stargate fans, and since I wasn&#8217;t one, it would have no interest for me. I tried TR, which reminded me I don&#8217;t really get into SF with guns and commandos. Not a huge David Drake fan. Harry Turtledove cries in despair. David Webber doesn&#8217;t like me.</p>
<p>Then Cheyenne Mountain puts out a press release filled with absolutely incomprehensible gibberish to a non-fan. That pushes non-fans away &#8212; they read that and think, ah, this game isn&#8217;t meant for me. I only have the movie to go on &#8212; and some promos SF channel shows during BSG, which show groups of commandos doing stuff.</p>
<p>What are they doing to bring the non-fan (but hopefully future fan) into the game?</p>
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		<title>By: yunk</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-4914</link>
		<dc:creator>yunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/#comment-4914</guid>
		<description>I would agree that only 2 factions is rather odd given that the who contained so many factions. But as far as &quot;what is the Replicator War, the Tok’ra / Goauld war &quot; etc that is really no different than any other game. I only played Warcraft I many many years before trying WoW, but it didn&#039;t make me confused or dislike &quot;who are all these factions and groups fighting&quot; it was something that would get introduced.  

So... if they write the quests well those factions and motivations can be introduced to the players who aren&#039;t familiar with it.

Everyone else already said everything :)

But I am not so much looking forward to it. It has huge potential but they really have to do a great job to get the potential out of the ideas and into the game. But I think this game is a perfect candidate for player created content, though that has advantages and disadvantages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would agree that only 2 factions is rather odd given that the who contained so many factions. But as far as &#8220;what is the Replicator War, the Tok’ra / Goauld war &#8221; etc that is really no different than any other game. I only played Warcraft I many many years before trying WoW, but it didn&#8217;t make me confused or dislike &#8220;who are all these factions and groups fighting&#8221; it was something that would get introduced.  </p>
<p>So&#8230; if they write the quests well those factions and motivations can be introduced to the players who aren&#8217;t familiar with it.</p>
<p>Everyone else already said everything :)</p>
<p>But I am not so much looking forward to it. It has huge potential but they really have to do a great job to get the potential out of the ideas and into the game. But I think this game is a perfect candidate for player created content, though that has advantages and disadvantages.</p>
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		<title>By: Kendricke</title>
		<link>http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-4912</link>
		<dc:creator>Kendricke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 19:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/01/10/stargate-worlds-huh/#comment-4912</guid>
		<description>In large epic stories, there was little chance to delve into the lives of lesser characters.  Worlds such as Star Wars or Lord of the Rings (and even Babylon 5 to an extent) were based heavily around the central driving characters being destined to move their worlds.  There were opportunities, but by and large, the entire story arcs were based heavily around the actions of a relatively small group of characters who were central to everything.

You see and feel this to a much lesser extent with Star Trek or Stargate worlds, where there are multiple ship crews or teams which are constantly referenced throughout each of the series.  In particular, Stargate seems absolutely built around the concept of an MMO.  Truly, I believe that even if there had never been a Stargate movie or series, the MMO could work and work well from a conceptual standpoint.  

Much, much more than Star Trek or Star Wars, I feel that Stargate is a good, solid platform for an MMO design.  You&#039;ve got centralized, focused factions which are relatively black and white (but with a goodly amount of fuzzy &quot;grey&quot; thrown into the mix to keep things interesting).  

You have the ability to create multiple worlds which are completely and utterly different from one another with a travel mechanic which is absolutely believable in context to the rest of the setting (seriously, it&#039;s the only real setting I can think of that comes with a built in zoning screen that makes complete sense given the context).  

You&#039;ve got modern day Air Force special forces forming up groups alongside civilian scientists/adventurers, and even the occasional alien (please note, no real in-combat healing class aside from medics or self-regenerating jaffa/go&#039;auld).  

Counting the dozens of individual sub-factions and sub-plots, you&#039;ve got ample room for future expansions.  

Like Star Trek, gameplay can revolve around combat, discovery, and/or both.  

There are very heavy mythological elements and themes to the overall series, effectively opening up all sorts of possible art directions and quest styles.  Seriously, throughout the 10 seasons of SG-1, we saw &quot;gods&quot; from every major mythological pantheon (Egyptian, Greek/Roman, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, African, Norse) as well as just figures of legend (Merlin, for example).  Designers don&#039;t have to spend time inventing languages or pantheons, when they can simply borrow from the wealth of historical data and series canon to build upon.  

Weapons, gear, and skillsets would be easy enough to incorporate - since the series itself regularly did so (seriously, who else wants the bracelets from the episode &quot;Upgrades&quot; where the team became super strong and fast...).  

Honestly, even if you had no idea what the series was about, I have a feeling that any competent designer could quickly and effectively immerse you into the setting with minimal issue.  In other words, I don&#039;t think it would be the IP&#039;s fault if the designers fail to include a tutorial/newbie experience that helps set the stage for those players who may not be as familiar with the background stories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In large epic stories, there was little chance to delve into the lives of lesser characters.  Worlds such as Star Wars or Lord of the Rings (and even Babylon 5 to an extent) were based heavily around the central driving characters being destined to move their worlds.  There were opportunities, but by and large, the entire story arcs were based heavily around the actions of a relatively small group of characters who were central to everything.</p>
<p>You see and feel this to a much lesser extent with Star Trek or Stargate worlds, where there are multiple ship crews or teams which are constantly referenced throughout each of the series.  In particular, Stargate seems absolutely built around the concept of an MMO.  Truly, I believe that even if there had never been a Stargate movie or series, the MMO could work and work well from a conceptual standpoint.  </p>
<p>Much, much more than Star Trek or Star Wars, I feel that Stargate is a good, solid platform for an MMO design.  You&#8217;ve got centralized, focused factions which are relatively black and white (but with a goodly amount of fuzzy &#8220;grey&#8221; thrown into the mix to keep things interesting).  </p>
<p>You have the ability to create multiple worlds which are completely and utterly different from one another with a travel mechanic which is absolutely believable in context to the rest of the setting (seriously, it&#8217;s the only real setting I can think of that comes with a built in zoning screen that makes complete sense given the context).  </p>
<p>You&#8217;ve got modern day Air Force special forces forming up groups alongside civilian scientists/adventurers, and even the occasional alien (please note, no real in-combat healing class aside from medics or self-regenerating jaffa/go&#8217;auld).  </p>
<p>Counting the dozens of individual sub-factions and sub-plots, you&#8217;ve got ample room for future expansions.  </p>
<p>Like Star Trek, gameplay can revolve around combat, discovery, and/or both.  </p>
<p>There are very heavy mythological elements and themes to the overall series, effectively opening up all sorts of possible art directions and quest styles.  Seriously, throughout the 10 seasons of SG-1, we saw &#8220;gods&#8221; from every major mythological pantheon (Egyptian, Greek/Roman, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, African, Norse) as well as just figures of legend (Merlin, for example).  Designers don&#8217;t have to spend time inventing languages or pantheons, when they can simply borrow from the wealth of historical data and series canon to build upon.  </p>
<p>Weapons, gear, and skillsets would be easy enough to incorporate &#8211; since the series itself regularly did so (seriously, who else wants the bracelets from the episode &#8220;Upgrades&#8221; where the team became super strong and fast&#8230;).  </p>
<p>Honestly, even if you had no idea what the series was about, I have a feeling that any competent designer could quickly and effectively immerse you into the setting with minimal issue.  In other words, I don&#8217;t think it would be the IP&#8217;s fault if the designers fail to include a tutorial/newbie experience that helps set the stage for those players who may not be as familiar with the background stories.</p>
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